transcript
The Fear Facer: An Update
We revisit the 2019 story of Ella Maners, a young girl whose fears were taking over her life — until she went to summer camp.
- julia longoria
This transcript was created using speech recognition software. While it has been reviewed by human transcribers, it may contain errors. Please review the episode audio before quoting from this transcript and email transcripts@nytimes.com with any questions. Oh, what’s that?
- ella maners
That? My dreamcatcher? Oh, it’s called a dreamcatcher, so I guess it catches bad dreams. But it hasn’t been working so good.
- julia longoria
Oh, yeah? Have you had some bad dreams lately?
- ella maners
Yes, I had some last night.
- julia longoria
Really? What did you dream about last night?
- ella maners
I don’t even really remember.
- julia longoria
Yeah, I always forget my dreams, too. I try sometimes to write them down so I can remember them. Do you ever do that?
- ella maners
No, ma’am, I’m still working on spelling, so.
- julia longoria
Gotcha. That makes sense.
[PERCUSSION MUSIC]
- ^archived recording (michael barbaro)
For “The New York Times,” I’m Michael Barbaro.
- ella maners
OK, that would probably be really hard to say Michael Barb — I don’t know. Is that his last name, Michael Barbar?
- julia longoria
Barbaro, yeah.
- ella maners
Oh.
- julia longoria
Yeah. So why don’t we try it? So —
- ella maners
OK. For “The New York Times,” I’m Ella. This is “The Daily.”
[MUSIC PLAYING]
Today, we are talking about fears and how to face them.
- michael barbaro
It’s Friday, October 14th.
- ella maners
(WHISPERS) I have to be really close to the mic.
[PHONE RINGING]
Hello?
- michael barbaro
Hello?
- katie maners
Michael?
- michael barbaro
Hi, is this Ella?
- ella maners
That was my mom talking, but now it’s me. Is that Michael?
- michael barbaro
Hi, Ella.
- ella maners
Hi.
- michael barbaro
Are you wearing headphones? How does it feel?
- ella maners
Great.
- julia longoria
All right, cool, and then —
- michael barbaro
Back in 2019, my colleague Julia Longoria traveled to Nashville, Tennessee and made one of our favorite episodes, which we’re re-airing today — a conversation with Ella Maners and her mother, Katie Maners.
It feels OK?
- ella maners
Yes, sir.
- michael barbaro
Are you calling me “sir?”
- ella maners
Yes, sir.
- michael barbaro
You don’t have to do that. I appreciate it, but —
- ella maners
Got it. How are you hearing me through this microphone?
- michael barbaro
I’m not actually hearing you through the microphone. I’m hearing you through the phone. But then eventually, a lot of people are going to hear you through the microphone.
- ella maners
I don’t get it.
- michael barbaro
Yeah, I don’t get it, either. I thought that we might begin with just a couple of really basic questions. How old are you?
- ella maners
I just turned nine.
- michael barbaro
And since you’re in, Ella, your bedroom, I wonder if you could describe a little bit of your surroundings, just a couple of things in that room that mean something to you.
- ella maners
Everybody in here, my bunk bed and my stuffed animals.
- michael barbaro
Can you tell me about those stuffed animals?
- ella maners
I got a unicorn named Uni. And Bun-Bun is my favorite, which is a bunny. She has OCD.
- michael barbaro
Bun-Bun has obsessive compulsive disorder?
- katie maners
Yes, sir. I mean yes.
- michael barbaro
So Ella, I know that you have been through a lot this last year. So I wanted to talk about that with you and with your mom. Is that — that sound fine?
- ella maners
Yeah.
- michael barbaro
Let me start by asking you about your biggest fears. What are you most scared of?
- ella maners
Throwing up, tornadoes, fires, Windex, monsters, and going upstairs by myself or in the garage.
- michael barbaro
And among those, because that’s a fair number of fears, what would you say are the biggest, the things that you’re most afraid of?
- ella maners
Getting sick and tornadoes. We have tornado watches here.
- archived recording 1
Hazard — tornado.
- ella maners
And then the worst thing is a tornado siren is right beside our house. [SIREN BLARES]
- archived recording 1
This dangerous storm will be near Nashville around 7:40 PM Central Standard Time. Take cover now.
- ella maners
So you can hear it really clear.
- [siren blares, dramatic music]
Ah! Ah!
It’s loud. It’s really loud.
- archived recording 2
Oh, my god.
- archived recording 3
It’s a twister. It’s a twister.
- archived recording 4
I think the apocalypse is coming.
- katie maners
That’s just kind of where her mind is.
- [screaming, siren blaring]
- michael barbaro
Mmhmm.
- ella maners
But we have never had a tornado actually hit our house.
- michael barbaro
That’s good.
- ella maners
Yes, sir. Yes.
- katie maners
Obsessive compulsive disorder is not what I imagined it to be. I pictured mainly the compulsive side of OCD — handwashing over and over or checking locks or things like that. And with Ella in particular, her OCD focuses more on the obsession, obsessive thoughts of vomiting, of tornadoes. Ella’s compulsion is actually avoidance. She will do anything to avoid the situations where vomit, tornado could happen.
- ella maners
OCD is just saying that — telling you that scary things are going to happen to you.
- katie maners
It took what Ella had a fear of —
- ella maners
Vomit, tornadoes.
- katie maners
— and just made that fear just enormous.
- [siren, screaming]
- ella maners
When I found out that I had OCD, I feel like it changed my life a lot.
- michael barbaro
How so?
- ella maners
It was harder for me to do a lot of different stuff that other people can do. And it was just harder, I feel like.
- katie maners
The first time, it was just your typical school day. And I get to the carpool line at school. And I drive up. And instead of Ella walking to our car, her teacher does. And I rolled down the window, a little confused, going like, OK, where’s Ella?
And that’s when she told me, Ella won’t leave the classroom. And of course, I’m going, what do you mean, she won’t leave the classroom? And when I got to her classroom, she was literally —
- ella maners
I just remember I was screaming on the floor. If I moved, I was going to get sick.
- katie maners
Knees up to her chest, arms wrapped around her. She was tucked into a little ball. And she was just laying on the floor, crying.
- ella maners
I am gonna get sick. I am gonna get sick.
- katie maners
And she was able to say, if I move, I think I’m going to get sick. Or if I stand up, I’m going to get sick.
- ella maners
I am going to get sick. I am going to get —
- katie maners
There was not one thing I could say. You’re going to be OK. You’re not going to get sick.
- ella maners
I am going to get sick.
- katie maners
That helped her.
- ella maners
I am going to get sick.
- katie maners
She was just stuck.
- ella maners
I am going to get sick. I am going —
- katie maners
Her brain was stuck.
- ella maners
I am going to get sick. I am going to get —
- katie maners
On this one thought of I’m going to get sick, Ella was basically paralyzed with her fear.
And I ended up just having to literally pull her off the floor and carry her to my car.
- ella maners
I am going to get sick.
- katie maners
We didn’t know that the things we were doing, the reassuring her — you’re not going to get sick — those were really amplifying her OCD. And the next thing that really pushed us was the day we got the phone call from the principal that told me there had been just a routine tornado drill at school.
- michael barbaro
Ella, can you tell me what happened that day?
- ella maners
Well, it was cold outside, so I was wearing two jackets. The tornado drill was at the end of the day.
[SIREN SOUNDING]
- katie maners
Hearing the siren really just sent Ella into that state of all-consuming fear.
- ella maners
Because I was telling myself, no, I’m not going to get sick.
- michael barbaro
So you tried to talk yourself out of it?
- ella maners
Yeah.
[DRAMATIC MUSIC]
And I didn’t take the two coats off. And it was really hot inside. And it was really thick coats. And we had to duck our heads down. Even though it was just fake, we were — so I just make sure we knew what to do.
- michael barbaro
And what did you do?
- ella maners
I went to the bathroom with everybody. We ducked our head in.
And then I threw up.
[SIREN SOUNDING]
- katie maners
I mean, when they told me, it was like, oh, my goshm poor child. How much worse could it get?
- [laughs]
It had to be a tornado, and it had to be vomit. It was her two worst fears in one.
- michael barbaro
And what did that experience do to your fears?
- ella maners
That just made the worse, really.
- katie maners
These fears just consumed her. They consumed her life.
- ella maners
There have been some boys that bullied me before.
- michael barbaro
Can you tell me what kinds of things they would say?
- ella maners
Somebody has said to me, you’re not that good as other people because you have OCD.
- michael barbaro
That’s horrible.
- ella maners
I started crying.
- katie maners
When you start to see her not be able to do the things that she’s been able to do is when as a parent you go, OK, we’ve really got to get on this.
- ella maners
Yeah. I realized that we had to do it the hard way.
- michael barbaro
What do you mean, “the hard way?”
- ella maners
I don’t really know.
- katie maners
What’s up?
- ella maners
In a second, can — do you want to talk by yourself so I can have a break?
- michael barbaro
Do you want a break, Ella?
- ella maners
Please?
- michael barbaro
Yeah, Ella, if you want a break, I would completely understand.
- julia longoria
Take it. Take a break.
- ella maners
Right now?
- julia longoria
Yeah, go for it.
- ella maners
OK.
We’ll be right back. Don’t leave.
- julia longoria
Tell them you’re ready.
- ella maners
All ready?
- michael barbaro
Yup.
- ella maners
Action.
- michael barbaro
OK. So once you determine that you have to do something —
- katie maners
Yes.
- michael barbaro
What do you do?
- katie maners
My husband and I, we just started researching. I did so much reading on OCD, the best treatment options for it.
- ella maners
Too much.
- katie maners
Ella just said, “Too much.” And came to the conclusion that Ella needed some intense therapy. So that’s how we came across the Fear Facers Camp that they put on two times a summer.
- michael barbaro
Fear Facers?
- ella maners
Mm-hmm.
- katie maners
It is for children that have obsessive compulsive disorder or other anxiety disorders. It is put on by the University of Florida. And — sorry, Ella’s making funny faces.
- michael barbaro
So Ella, just based on the name, it sounds like this is a place where kids go to confront their fears.
- katie maners
Yes.
- ella maners
OK, mom, stop talking. It’s my time to shine.
- katie maners
Sorry, Ella. It’s your time to shine.
- ella maners
Yeah.
- katie maners
Go for it.
- ella maners
Burn.
- michael barbaro
So Ella, tell me about what you first thought when you heard about this camp of Fear Facers?
- ella maners
I was excited but nervous at the same time. And I was not ready for the drive.
- michael barbaro
The drive?
- ella maners
Yes.
- michael barbaro
The long drive?
- ella maners
Yes.
- katie maners
Do you remember what you played on the radio?
- ella maners
When I’m sad, I love hearing emotional songs because — I don’t know why. Like Calum Scott, “You Are the Reason.”
- archived recording^ (calum scott)
(SINGING) And you are the reason that I’m still breathing. I climb every mountain and swim every ocean.
- ella maners
(SINGING) Swim every ocean.
- archived recording^ (calum scott)
(SINGING) Just to be with you and fix what I’ve broken.
- ella maners
So we’d just drive from Nashville to Gainesville.
- michael barbaro
As you arrive, can you describe what it looks like?
- ella maners
There’s tons of parking lots. And it wasn’t a spend the night camp. You should just look it up.
- michael barbaro
OK, let me do that.
[PLAYFUL MUSIC]
Fear Facers Camp. I’m looking for the photos.
There aren’t really a lot of photos.
There really are almost no photos.
- ella maners
I could tell that it was a really nice place. It kind of looked like a church.
- michael barbaro
So what was the first thing that you did when you got there?
- ella maners
I got to meet my counselors. And I named my OCD Ocie.
- michael barbaro
Ocie? And why did you do that?
- ella maners
I just like the name.
- katie maners
If you give that OCD a name, it helps them identify, like, OK, is this me thinking or me being scared? Or is this OCD? Or in Ella’s case, is this Ocie being scared?
- julia longoria
And tell me about Ocie.
- ella maners
I always just picture him being like he’s a bubble inside of my brain. He’s a little bubble, blue. It’s blue because blue is my favorite color. I don’t know why.
- julia longoria
Why did you give Ocie your favorite color, do you think?
- ella maners
I don’t know.
- julia longoria
Is it kind of like Ocie’s a little bit a part of you, like it’s always going to be there?
- ella maners
Yeah, it would always be there. She or he’s just sneaky.
- julia longoria
Sneaky?
- ella maners
Yeah.
- julia longoria
Sneaky how?
- ella maners
You don’t know what he’s going to do.
[RAGTIME PIANO MUSIC]
He tells me or she tells me I am going to get sick.
- ocie
I am going to get sick. I am going to get sick. I am going to get sick.
- ella maners
And I say, I’m not going to get sick. I’m not going to get sick. And that makes it worse.
- ocie
I am gonna get sick.
- ella maners
I’m not going to get sick.
- ocie
I am gonna get sick.
- ella maners
I’m not going to get sick.
- ocie
I am gonna get sick. I am gonna get sick. I am gonna get sick. I am gonna get sick.
- ella maners
So they told me to talk to Ocie different.
- ocie
I am going to get sick. I am going to get sick. I am going to get —
- ella maners
To help Ocie get defeated, you can say, yes, I am going to get sick. Yes, I am going to get sick. Yes, I am going to — yes, I am going to get sick. I am going to get sick.
- ocie
I am gonna get sick.
[SLAP]
- ella maners
I don’t know how, but it defeats Ocie because it’s like —
- ocie
Oh, no fair.
[PIANO FLOURISH]
- katie maners
Just so Ella’s OCD could have a friend, I named my OCD Ocinda.
I discovered I definitely have a little OCD in me. I check my stove at night. We have a gas stove, and I always check. And I can’t just look at it. I have to feel that the little lines are facing off.
- archived recording (violet crawley)
Because I want the pleasure of saying I told you so.
- katie maners
Ocinda in my mind is just like Violet, the grandmother character —
- archived recording (cora crawley)
I think Granny’s right.
- archived recording^ (violet crawley)
Can somebody write that down?
[PLAYFUL MUSIC]
- katie maners
— from “Downton Abbey,” who always has to have things a certain way and is very particular and picky, just nagging.
- archived recording^ (violet crawley)
Missing what? I have plenty of friends I don’t like.
- katie maners
That’s what Ocinda would be. Ella, do you remember we were sitting on the basketball court. And we sat and we listed all of your fears.
[PLAYFUL PIANO MUSIC]
- ella maners
Yeah.
- katie maners
Zero, I can — I’m not really scared of it. 10, biggest fear ever.
- ella maners
Vomit.
- ocie
Throwing up.
- ella maners
Tornadoes.
- ocie
Windex.
- ella maners
Fires. [GROANS]
- ocie
And others.
- michael barbaro
And so, Ella, what did the counselors do after you told them about your fears?
- ella maners
We did them.
- michael barbaro
You did them?
- ella maners
We just did them.
- michael barbaro
What do you mean?
- ella maners
Well, we did exposures to them.
[DRAMATIC MUSIC]
- michael barbaro
Exposing yourself to the thing that you’re most afraid of?
- ella maners
Yes, sir. Or yes.
- katie maners
So at one point during the week, during Ella’s morning, they tackled tornadoes.
- ella maners
They would bring me into a room that nobody was in, me and my mom and my counselors. They would bring their iPad in there to play something on it.
- archived recording 5
Whoa, really strong winds.
- archived recording 6
Yes, sir.
- archived recording 5
Well, we’re probably close to something here.
- [thunder, wind]
- ella maners
The first thing that I watched was not too hard. And then I went up to harder ones.
[WIND HOWLING]
[DOG BARKING]
The dog was running kind of to the tornado. I was like, no, doggy, stay here. They didn’t take the — long. I was like, I would just take the dog, too.
[DOG BARKING]
Then after, they just put me into the bathroom and —
[TORNADO SIREN]
— played the tornado siren. We redid what happened when I got sick. And we put two jackets on me.
- michael barbaro
Wow.
- katie maners
Everybody’s like, why two coats? But they really did try to create the situation at school to really put her back in that moment when she was so fearful at school and have her see, you can do this.
- ella maners
I said, oh, no. The siren is getting louder and louder.
[TORNADO SIREN]
Ocie started talking to me.
- ocie
There’s gonna be a tornado. There’s going to be a tornado.
- ella maners
And I was like, yes, there is. Yes, there is. Yes, there is. Yes, there is. Yes, there is.
- ocie
Oh, no fear.
[GENTLE MUSIC]
- ella maners
We kept doing it over and over again. And then it just kept getting easier and easier. And then the exposures for the day were over.
- katie maners
So after the first exposure, we moved to vomit. And of course, as soon as we said that, Ella’s eyes got really big. It was like, wait, we’re already going to do vomit? That’s one of the really hard ones. And so they explained that we’re going to watch a video. And of course, her first response is like, yeah, I don’t know about that.
- ella maners
I rated it a 10.
- julia longoria
Do you mind if I play it?
- ella maners
Yeah, I don’t care really.
[WOMEN VOCALIZING]
They showed me the “Pitch Perfect,” which started with a 10. I knew something was going to happen. But I didn’t know when.
- archived recording 7
(SINGING) I’ll be here for you.
- ella maners
Whenever I watch “Pitch Perfect,” my heart races.
- julia longoria
Right now?
- ella maners
Yeah.
- julia longoria
Really?
- ella maners
Yeah.
- julia longoria
I’m sorry. Do you want to stop doing this?
- ella maners
I’m going — I want to keep going.
- julia longoria
OK. OK.
- archived recording 7
(SINGING) I’m gonna let you, oh, alone. I saw the —
- ella maners
Like, “I saw the sign, and I opened up my eyes.” I saw the flecks.
- archived recording 8
[VOMITING]:
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
- archived recording 9
Oh, no!
- archived recording 10
Holy.
- ella maners
There was just vomit shooting out of her mouth.
[INTERPOSING VOICES]
So bad. It’s like [PANTING]:. But kids, it’s worth it.
[SINGERS VOCALIZING]
Ocie was just like, you are going to get sick.
- ocie
You are gonna get sick. You are gonna —
- ella maners
So I was like, yes, I am. Yes, I am. Yes, I am. Yes, I am. And Ocie was like —
- ocie
OK, fine. I give up.
- archived recording 7
(SINGING) Alone. I saw the sign.
- ella maners
And we realized that it wasn’t as scary as we thought.
- archived recording 7
(SINGING) Opened up my eyes. I saw —
- ella maners
The more times I watched it —
- archived recording 7
(SINGING) Opened up my eyes, I saw the —
[SWOOSH]
- ella maners
— it helped better.
- katie maners
After we left the room with the iPads, that is when we went to the kitchen area and started the exposure of pretending to vomit up water.
- ella maners
They took me to the sink, and we got water in our mouth. And then we’d spit it out, but it would be kind of like we threw it up.
- michael barbaro
So you pretended to be throwing up?
- ella maners
Yes. It was easy because — I don’t know. It was just pretty easy on that. And then we moved on to the bathroom. And that’s where everything got trickier.
[DRAMATIC MUSIC]
- katie maners
That definitely was hard. So these counselors grab a handful of the really gross jellybeans that you play “BeanBoozled” with. So they taste like vomit or grass clippings or whatnot. And I mean, god bless these counselors because they’re the ones that ate the jelly beans, not Ella. Ella just had to watch. And they chewed them up and then pretended to vomit in the toilet.
- ella maners
One girl almost actually kind of got sick, kind of was gagging.
- katie maners
I don’t know if it was the taste of the jelly beans or if it was just gag reflex, but it really sounded like she got sick. And that’s when Ella just really lost it. They were saying, OK, Ella, why don’t you look to see if she got sick? And she did not want to look to see if she got sick.
- ella maners
They would ask me my rating. I said 10. I refused to look in the toilet.
And I was crying, and my mom was crying.
- katie maners
I stepped out of the stall because I think my emotion was upsetting Ella more.
- ella maners
She said, this is too much. Why?
- michael barbaro
So Katie, it sounds like you’re starting to question this whole exposure thing.
- katie maners
Yes, I had doubts. Did we make the right decision doing this? Is this really going to help her? And I remember being outside and just going like, is this how it’s supposed to be? And they were like, yes. This is hard. This is going to be a hard moment for her. But she’s going to have a moment in there where she realizes she can do this.
- ella maners
I was like, why did I come to camp? This is not fun. My mom was like, she’s not going to want to come back tomorrow.
But they wouldn’t let me leave, so I had to do it. So they took a picture with my mom’s phone.
- katie maners
So they said, OK, how about we take a picture? And you look at the picture.
- michael barbaro
Picture of?
- katie maners
Inside. I mean the toilet. And Ella wouldn’t look at it at first and covered her eyes. And they were like, Ella, let’s try to look at it.
- ella maners
I looked at the picture inside the toilet.
- katie maners
They said she just stared at it, like made herself look at it. And she just eventually took two steps and —
- ella maners
I looked inside the toilet actually without the picture. They only made me look at it once. I was so scared, but it’s worth it.
[PEACEFUL MUSIC]
- katie maners
I was outside the bathroom, talking with one of the doctors. And we heard them cheering inside, just Ella’s counselors just going crazy in the bathroom. And so we literally made a tunnel for her to go through coming out of the bathroom. And we all cheered and high-fived her.
And the first thing she did was come over to me and give me a big hug. I mean, of course, she’s got red eyes. And I was like, what was it like? And she’s like, I was proud of myself. I felt brave. And I hadn’t heard her say that in a really long time.
- ella maners
I felt really good after I did all these exposures. I felt good. I felt happy. I felt brave. I felt everything, really.
- katie maners
I’ve always said, we will sit with you in the bottom of the pit. And we’ll just get through it. We’ll get through it together. And at some point, everybody is going to be at the bottom of the pit. No one’s life is perfect.
And I think the younger they are and can start learning to be there and work themselves back up, I mean, that’s — it’s an advantage. Oh, sorry. It’s hard months. So worth it. I mean, we’ve — gosh, she’s going to be an amazing adult.
- michael barbaro
Ella, there are a lot of kids who have OCD.
- ella maners
Yeah.
- michael barbaro
There are also a lot of kids who have major fears, even if they don’t have OCD. But most kids don’t go to a special camp to face their fears. So what would you say to a kid like that? What kind of advice would you give him or her?
- ella maners
First I would say hi. And then I would be like, just do what I do. Do strategies what I do, or say, yes, I am. Yes, I am, like that. And hopefully it will get better.
- michael barbaro
Do you think it took away those fears?
- ella maners
No, sir. No.
- michael barbaro
If you have these fears now, how are they different?
- ella maners
They aren’t as scary.
[ELECTRONIC MUSIC]
- michael barbaro
Ella, I’ve really enjoyed getting to know you in this conversation very much. And you’re very brave.
- ella maners
Thank you. Thank you.
- michael barbaro
Thank you. And thank you, Katie.
- katie maners
Thank you.
- ella maners
Vomit and tornadoes.
- julia longoria
Just talk right into the mic.
- ella maners
Vomit and tornadoes.
- julia longoria
One more time.
- ella maners
Vomit and tornadoes.
- julia longoria
Sing it again.
- ella maners
Vomit and tornadoes.
- michael barbaro
Since we first spoke to Ella, she’s returned to the Fear Facers camp for a second time. She’s now 12 and in fifth grade. This week, she told us a news story about how she continues to face her fears.
- ella maners
So this actually happened recently. My family and I were going somewhere from Nashville to Mississippi to visit my grandparents. And we were in the car, just leaving. And my parents’ phone, alarm, tornado thing started going off.
[TORNADO SIREN]
We were right by a gas station, so I was panicking. I started saying, oh, my gosh. I don’t know what to do. And we went into the gas station. My heart was beating very fast. And we stayed in a bathroom with at least 10 other people in the back of the store. And my dad asked me to come outside to see the weather.
And I was like, OK. And then we could see a little funnel shape in the clouds. And it started rotating.
And I went back inside, and I started panicking a little. But then I calmed down, did some deep breathing. And I just said in my head, I’m going to be OK. Everything’s going to be OK.
And then we just left 20 minutes later. And we were fine.
[ACOUSTIC MUSIC]
My fears are still there and give me anxiety. But I have been doing more strategies and going to therapy and doing a lot of things that will help me overcome them. They don’t control me, but I can control them.
- michael barbaro
We’ll be right back.
Here’s what else you need to know today.
- archived recording (liz cheney)
Mr Chairman, our committee now has sufficient information to answer many of the critical questions posed by Congress at the outset. But a key task remains. We must seek the testimony under oath of January 6th’s central player.
- michael barbaro
During the latest hearing of the House January 6th Committee, members voted unanimously to subpoena former President Trump to force him to answer questions about his role in fomenting the deadly attack on the Capitol.
- archived recording (bennie thompson)
If there’s no further debate, the question is on agreeing to the resolution. Those in favor will say, aye.
- archived recording (group)
Aye.
- archived recording (bennie thompson)
Those that opposed it is no. In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it.
- michael barbaro
The vote is a major escalation in the committee’s approach to collecting evidence. But it may ultimately be symbolic. Trump is widely expected to defy such a subpoena or use the court system to block it.
And a jury has recommended that Nikolas Cruz, the gunman found guilty of killing 17 people at the Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, should be sentenced to life without the possibility of parole, opting not to give him the death penalty. Relatives of the victims appeared surprised and angry as they learned that Cruz’s life had been spared following a grueling and emotional trial that lasted for months. Afterward at least one juror who voted against the death penalty said he did so because he believed that Cruz was mentally ill.
Today’s episode was produced by Julia Longoria and edited by Wendy Dorr with help from Lynsea Garrison, Jazmin Aguilera, Marc Georges, Anita Badejo, and MJ Davis Lin. It contains original music and was engineered by Alexander Overington with help from Brad Fisher. Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly.
[THEME SONG]
That’s it for “The Daily.” I’m Michael Barbaro. See you on Monday.
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The Fear Facer: An Update
We revisit the 2019 story of Ella Maners, a young girl whose fears were taking over her life — until she went to summer camp.
Lynsea Garrison, Jazmin Aguilera, Marc Georges, Anita Badejo, Stella Tan and
Alexander Overington, Marion Lozano and
Alexander Overington and
Listen and follow The Daily
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In 2019, Julia Longoria, then a Daily producer, traveled to Nashville to speak with Ella Maners and her mother, Katie Maners.
Ella, 8 going on 9, was terrified of tornadoes and getting sick. So she did something that was even scarier than her fears: confront them at Fear Facers camp.
We revisit her story and catch up with Ella, now 12 and in the fifth grade, who has since returned to the camp.
Background reading
Three years ago, Ella spent a week at Fear Facers Summer Camp, a day camp in Florida that helps children learn to deal with obsessive-compulsive and anxiety disorders.
There are a lot of ways to listen to The Daily. Here’s how.
We aim to make transcripts available the next workday after an episode’s publication. You can find them at the top of the page.
The Daily is made by Lisa Tobin, Rachel Quester, Lynsea Garrison, Clare Toeniskoetter, Paige Cowett, Michael Simon Johnson, Brad Fisher, Chris Wood, Jessica Cheung, Stella Tan, Alexandra Leigh Young, Lisa Chow, Eric Krupke, Marc Georges, Luke Vander Ploeg, M.J. Davis Lin, Dan Powell, Dave Shaw, Sydney Harper, Robert Jimison, Mike Benoist, Liz O. Baylen, Asthaa Chaturvedi, Rachelle Bonja, Diana Nguyen, Marion Lozano, Corey Schreppel, Anita Badejo, Rob Szypko, Elisheba Ittoop, Chelsea Daniel, Mooj Zadie, Patricia Willens, Rowan Niemisto, Jody Becker, Rikki Novetsky, John Ketchum, Nina Feldman, Will Reid, Carlos Prieto, Sofia Milan, Ben Calhoun and Susan Lee.
Our theme music is by Jim Brunberg and Ben Landsverk of Wonderly. Special thanks to Sam Dolnick, Paula Szuchman, Lisa Tobin, Larissa Anderson, Cliff Levy, Lauren Jackson, Julia Simon, Mahima Chablani, Desiree Ibekwe, Wendy Dorr, Elizabeth Davis-Moorer, Jeffrey Miranda, Renan Borelli, Maddy Masiello and Nell Gallogly.
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